Interview with Andrew Farley

I was searching recently online for a new book to read when I came across an advertisement for Zondervan’s The Naked Gospel (available for pre-order at a discount here and in bookstores everywhere September 1, 2009) . I read some reviews and visited the website and was intrigued by the author, Andrew Farley. After a several discussions via Facebook (ah, the power of social networking), I was able to ask him a few questions about his book and some questions regarding his faith.

Brandon Smith: Your unusual faith journey includes an addiction to street evangelism and Bible study that led to a debilitating depression. Tell us your story.

Andrew Farley: Yeah, I found myself lying on the floor of my apartment, begging God for answers. I was saying, “God, I’m doing everything they say to do. I’m reading my Bible four or five hours a day. I’m sharing my faith with everybody I meet. I’m at church every time the doors are open. But I still don’t feel like I’m growing spiritually. I’m stalled, and I can’t explain why. You say the truth will set me free. I’m anything but free!”

I needed God to start all over with me, and He did. Although I was already a Christian, my belief system was poisoned with religiosity. Over the next ten years, I began replacing old thoughts with new thoughts. And it changed everything for me.

Back then, if I were honest and vulnerable, my sales pitch would have been, “Would you like to become a Christian and be miserable like me?” But today I’d wish my Christian experience on everyone. I’ve learned some radical, Scriptural truths that were right there in the Bible, that I never knew existed. That’s why I wrote The Naked Gospel – to share with others the radical truths that absolutely revolutionized my life.

B: The central theme of your book is “Jesus plus nothing.” How has the contemporary church added to Jesus, in your opinion?

A: Some are saying “Jesus plus baptism.” Others are saying “Jesus plus tithing.” Others are saying “Jesus plus tongues.” And some are even saying, “Jesus plus Judaism!” Although baptisms, giving, and spiritual gifts are part of healthy church life, I think we need to be clearer about the powerful truths of the core gospel message.

The Naked Gospel was written to serve as an intravenous shot of unadulterated truth that will stir us and perhaps even rattle some of us into considering how we’ve added to the gospel and hindered the pure power of “Jesus plus nothing” in our everyday lives.

B: Why do you say that Christians should have no relationship with the Ten Commandments?

A: When Paul describes the law as a ministry of condemnation, he notes that the law was “in letters engraved on stones.” Clearly, he’s talking about the Ten Commandments. So, the Ten will only minister condemnation – to the saved and to the lost.

Of course, people will argue the importance of the Ten Commandments for Christian living today. But just ask them, “What did you do last Saturday?” If they did any work of any kind, then they disobeyed one of the Big Ten. They might say, “Well we’re free from the Sabbath now.” My reply, “So then, it’s the Nine Commandments that we’re still under?”

We Christians dice up God’s law to get it the way we like it. But the reality is that the law is an all-or-nothing proposition. James tells us that even if we keep the whole law and stumble in only one point, we are guilty of all of it. We don’t have the right to cherry pick, selecting the parts that are comfortable for us.

It’s 600+ Jewish commands and regulations, or it’s total freedom to serve in the newness of the Spirit. The choice is ours. But there’s no room for selecting from the law here and there and imposing a few on Christians. That makes no sense at all.

The Jewish Law, including the Ten Commandments, is perfect in every way. It’s so perfect that nobody can live up to it! It’s actually designed to allow sin to thrive in our lives, to convict us of that sin, and to point us to our need for Jesus Christ.

After we receive Jesus, all we need is Jesus. He produces the love, patience, and self-control we need for daily living. After the salvation experience, any return to the law or another rule-based system is essentially “cheating on Jesus.”

B: You note that the New Testament contains no instance of the Holy Spirit “convicting” Christians of their sin. How does behavior improve then for the Christian?

A: Yeah, it may be surprising to hear such a claim given all the rhetoric we toss around about the Holy Spirit convicting us Christians. But the reality is that the root “convict” only shows up about eight times in the whole Bible. And the term is never used to describe how the Holy Spirit interacts with Christians.

The word “convict” means ‘to find guilty.’ Convicts are people who have been found guilty and are living out their punishment in prison. Why would the Holy Spirit convict us, or find us guilty, when He has already said, “your sins and lawless acts I will remember no more”?

God has chosen to forget our sins. And our forgiveness is expressed in past tense – we “have been forgiven.” It’s a completed act. Therefore, for God to drum up our past is inconsistent with the core Gospel message itself.

Of course, the Holy Spirit is our Counselor, our Comforter, and our Guide into all truth. So how does our behavior improve? By these very means! How can we doubt whether personal counsel from the God of the Universe is sufficient for daily living?
On top of that, does dwelling on our past and having our sins tallied up in our minds really help us do any better? I think it has the opposite effect. If we dig up our past sins, we only continue to see ourselves as dirty, rotten sinners. Then, guess how we’ll live? Like dirty, rotten sinners!

The whole point of the gospel is that we’ve been cleansed and we now have a brand new identity as saints. So, what is the Holy Spirit doing? God’s Spirit is praying on our behalf and bearing witness with us about our new identity.

Who wants “conviction” when we’ve got total forgiveness combined with the best Life Coach anyone could ever ask for? The Naked Gospel talks about how all of this plays out.

B: You claim that it’s unbiblical and insulting to God if Christians ask for forgiveness when they sin. Isn’t forgiveness one of the essentials of Christian belief? Explain that one.

A: Yes, the phrases “ask forgiveness” and “ask for forgiveness” are entirely absent from all New Testament epistles. It has never been about making promises to God, trying harder, or listing every sin on a legal pad and waiting to be cleansed afterward.

Although it’s very religious to ask for forgiveness, it totally ignores the work of the cross. Jesus took away our sins and cleansed us “once for all.” To ask, plead, beg, and wait for a new portion of cleansing to come our way is to ignore what Jesus said from the cross: “It is finished.”

Yes, we should turn from every sin we commit. Yes, we should be honest and open about our struggles before God. But we should also be honest and straightforward about the blood of Jesus and what it accomplished – an unconditional, irrevocable, one-time cleansing from all our sins!

Requesting forgiveness is not the same as thanking God for the cleansing we already have. Now that forgiveness has been accomplished, our job is to relish the work of Jesus Christ and to deem it “enough.”

As we rest in the finished work of the Son, we please the Father.

B: You say that Christians won’t be judged for their sins when they die. What do you say to those who mention that Scripture clearly indicates a final judgment for all of humanity?

A: Jesus was judged for our sins. Jesus was judged guilty as he “became sin,” and the just punishment was death. That punishment was carried out in full on the cross. So why would we be judged for our sins if Jesus was already judged for them? It just makes no sense.

Still, there are all kinds of popular teachings out there about Judgment Day and the need for “godly fear” among Christians concerning that day. I’ve even heard some say that they gauge the effectiveness of a sermon by how guilty they feel when they leave! The gospel should have the opposite effect on Christians.

Of course, there is a final judgment, but the question is: What does it look like? The Naked Gospel explores passages about judgment. It shows why we Christians don’t have to fear the return of Christ for any reason.

If we fear punishment of any kind, the Apostle John says we need to be more “perfected in love.” That’s the intent of my book – to help people get more rooted in the unbelievable love of God.

B: You pastor a growing church in West Texas called Ecclesia (the Greek word for “church”). What would you say sets your church apart from any other contemporary church?

A: Our philosophy is “Church Without Religion.”

Ever since the days of the early church, we Christians have become very adept at adding to the gospel message and thereby making church a very “religious” experience. But Christianity was never intended to meet our ill-perceived need for religion. Instead, Christianity is primarily about restoring to us what we lost in Eden. At that time, there were no church buildings, or services, or Bibles, of course.

So, if Christianity is not primarily about Sunday morning or new building projects or studying a book for self-improvement, then what’s it all about? It’s about receiving and displaying God’s divine life on a moment-by-moment basis. And it’s about freedom to serve from a heartfelt motive, not out of any religious obligation.

In The Naked Gospel, I talk about Christ, not just as our Savior and Lord, but also as our Life. I talk about what that really means for “church life” and for an individual’s daily life.

B: What is the most crucial advice you could give someone who is reading the Bible or studying theology for the first time?

A: I’d highlight the Great Divide. It’s not baby Jesus lying in the manger in Matthew 1 that changed everything for us. But with our “New Testament” divider page placed just before Matthew 1, we Christians can lose sight of the fact that Jesus’ death, not his birth, initiated the New Testament era (see Hebrews 9:16-17).

Therefore, Jesus was born under law. And much of Jesus’ teaching was aimed at redeeming those who were under law (Galatians 4:4-5). He told them to gouge out their eyes and cut off their hands in their fight against sin. Pretty high standards, I think.

If we Christians were truly following those teachings, and not watering them down or dismissing them, today’s churches would look much like an amputation ward at the local hospital. Instead, we recognize on some level that Jesus was placing demands on his Jewish listeners that were just too great.

We see this with the Sermon on the Mount, and with the rich man too. Jesus told him to sell everything. Sell everything, really? Yes, Jesus said to sell everything in order to enter the kingdom.

But today, we don’t preach this. You’ll never see an evangelist telling people to go home and list all their belongings on eBay in order to enter the Kingdom. Why not? Those are Jesus’ own words, aren’t they? On some level, we all recognize that Jesus’ death, not His birth in Matthew 1, changed everything for us.

In The Naked Gospel, I talk about the sweeping implications of this dividing line for how we study the Bible – the teachings of Jesus in particular – and how we relate to God and live life.

B: What reactions have you received from the book so far?

A: When some hear they can be free from religion and only need Jesus for daily living, they call the idea “naive.” When some hear that Christians are totally forgiven for all sins – past, present, and future – no matter what, they actually get mad. They call that one a “license to sin” and “heresy.”

I call it the Gospel. If you’re not being falsely accused of promoting a “license to sin” then you’re probably not teaching the Gospel. The Apostle Paul was falsely accused of speaking out against Moses and the law. He also had to constantly answer this one: “Well, then, why don’t we just go out and sin so that grace can increase?”

We Christians should be accused of these things on a regular basis. Otherwise, I’m afraid we’re peddling a powerless gospel of “Jesus plus something.”

So far, The Naked Gospel has received one of two reactions – people love it or hate it. I’ve been called a heretic. I’ve even been told that the book will “destroy America’s churches.” But I’ve also heard lots of people say things like, “it totally changed my life,” and “I’ll never be the same again.”

It’s no fun to be accused, but it’s very rewarding to see people go free. It appears that some may speak out against the book. But it also appears that the book will free lots of people to enjoy the simple, powerful message of “Jesus Plus Nothing.”

And that’s what it’s all about.

*Andrew is the lead teaching pastor of Ecclesia, a growing church on the high plains of West Texas and also co-author of A Climate for Change: Global Warming Facts for Faith-Based Decisions (FaithWords, October 2009). He co-hosts Real Life in Christ, a thought-provoking television program that airs every Wednesday morning on ABC-TV in West Texas. He lives in Lubbock, Texas with his wife Katharine and their son, Gavin.

To watch or listen to some of Andrew’s teaching, visit www.EcclesiaOnline.com

To pre-order The Naked Gospel for $10.19 ($14.99 retail) click here.